Chopping issues

I went and bought a Celcius CTW about a month or so ago and finally got too use it in a game. I'm a bit disappointed with it too be honest. For some reason it's chopping up bb's along with double feeding about every ten rounds. I can't figure out as too why. I'm currently using KSC .25 gram bb's and for magazines i'm using systema PTW ones. Just seems to me the magazines can't feed it quick enought which doesn't make any sense since my Systema PTW has never jammed or chopped one bb and i've had it for a year. I've checked the cylinder to make sure it's all the way in i'm honestly not sure what the issue is, just seems like the rate of fire might be a bit too high.

Yes it's one of the newer models and yes I bought it from hot spot.

Koyote wrote:I went and bought a Celcius CTW about a month or so ago and finally got too use it in a game. I'm a bit disappointed with it too be honest. For some reason it's chopping up bb's along with double feeding about every ten rounds. I can't figure out as too why. I'm currently using KSC .25 gram bb's and for magazines i'm using systema PTW ones. Just seems to me the magazines can't feed it quick enought which doesn't make any sense since my Systema PTW has never jammed or chopped one bb and i've had it for a year. I've checked the cylinder to make sure it's all the way in i'm honestly not sure what the issue is, just seems like the rate of fire might be a bit too high.

Yes it's one of the newer models and yes I bought it from hot spot.

My CTW feeds just fine with the KSC og G&P bb`s (both 0.25g)in the original magazine and my Vanaras magazines. Is it long since you lubed your mag? I had a couple of misfeeds and chops with my Vanaras mags until i lubed them.. since then i have had no misfeeds or chops.

It's been a bit since I've lubed them up but I use the exact same ones in my systema without any issues, even the celcius magazine that came with the gun is having the chopping issue and it seems to only happen on auto I'm only doing maybe 5 -7 round burst. So I was thinking the cylinder maybe too weak for the battery.

Koyote wrote:It's been a bit since I've lubed them up but I use the exact same ones in my systema without any issues, even the celcius magazine that came with the gun is having the chopping issue and it seems to only happen on auto I'm only doing maybe 5 -7 round burst. So I was thinking the cylinder maybe too weak for the battery.

hm...thats weird, i have the cs350 cylinder and i run a 11.1volt 2400mah lipo... so my ROF is 22.9rps when i chronoed it. I haven`t gotten any chops.. have you tried a different bb brand? the CTW is really really picky when it comes to bb`s.

Thats what I was afraid of when I bought it. I've only used the KSC .25 gram bb's in it since thats all I have at the moment. I figured they were one of the top bb's for quality. I was thinking about Javlin bb's next i've heard some good things about them.

Just not understanding why i'm having such an issue with chopping since no one else has, because i've search online too see if anyone else is having this issue.

Try this. Can't guarntee it will work but it may. In the buffer tube that screw to get to the inside, there should be o rings or spacers. Remove one. This will set the cylinder back a bit. Which may help with the chopping. Also lube both the mags and hop up and barrell. The systema mags don't work as well on full auto with the celcius. (Not as high speed) I've heard people with older model celcius' did this to fix chopping. I hope this works for you. Let us all know.

Well, that worked for about two magazines then it started to chop again...time to send it to hot spot.

Did you try to lube the mags?

Yes I did

Weird.. and KSC is one of the best bb`s for the CTW too... hm..this one got me puzzled.

I have noticed that each gun seems to like different ammo. I use G&G bios and they work fine. No problems. Others on my team use different brands. No one brand seems to work in all of four CTW's. It looks like trial and error.

I had this issue the problem was that the cylinder spring screw came loose. Take your cylinder out shake it if you hear something moving in the cylinder it that screw.

I completly forgot about that one. If that is it don't forget to lock tight the screw so it doesn't happen again

hey try using madbull or g&g bbs some people i play with use diff bbs cuz they dont work in my gun and mine wont work in theirs. I use g&g, and some use the ksc because the g&gs wont work and then one uses g&g bios cuz mine and the ksc wont work but i cant use the bios

Well, I sent it out to Hot Spot airsoft today along with a bag of the KSC that I use. Hopefully they can figure out the issue.

Thank you all for helping out.

Koyote wrote:Well, I sent it out to Hot Spot airsoft today along with a bag of the KSC that I use. Hopefully they can figure out the issue.

Thank you all for helping out.

Hey Koyote

Did you ever get this issue resolved? I am having the same issue with mine (XMAX model), whether I
use Systema or Celcius mags. A friend of mine who's a bit of a Systema guru took a look
at mine and he reckons that the cylinder is a little too lose - for example when you
open it up to change the cyliner mine opens really easily, and you should have to give the stock a little whack to get it open. Anyway he said that it's because my cylinder needs pushing forward,
so i've ordered a new new stock tube cap and some of the spacers/o rings that someone
mentioned earlier in the thread

As far I can tell the "fake double feeding" issue, exactly choping bbs in two parts (that seem two different bbs) are mostly caused of the wrong external barrel alignement.

A few degree is enough for a hopup chamber wrong alignement with the magazine that mean the magazine lips can't properly release the bb, so instead to push them entirely in the hopup, is only let them half way, so nozzle will chop the bb.

Check carefully the outer barrel alignement.

i think you're right, bluelight but:

i'm having the same chopping problem; when I received my gun, it wouldn't feed correctly with my celcius mag nor one of my 2 a&k's; ptw/ctw gunsmith noticed an outer barrel misalignment (it was a few degrees to the right so it could not feed very well) and repaired it entirely..

now it feeds better but I still have chopping bbs in my chamber;
i'm thinking maybe the mag is not high enough in the lower receiver; anyone noticed this on their ctw?

Chopped/smashed bbs are #1 cause for the broken nozzle if parts of bb got in the cylinder between piston and the nozzle back.

No wonder that might be feeding issues, is the same mag catch that is making feeding problems on M4 AEG only that the Systema magazine is more sensitive.

Did you notice the small pieces of metal from the lower part of hopup chamber, arround the bb feeding hole, that spread the mag lips in order to release the bbs?
Is not hard to see that 0,5mm deviation is enough that they don't do their job properly anymore.

A possible solution might be adding some tin or some hard addesive (poxipol?) on them to make them a little bigger (longer?).
Take care to do not add it inside of them to block the bbs path.

Also, the chopping issue might have other causes if is not happend too often and doesn't depend of pushing up the mag.

BlueLight wrote:A possible solution might be adding some tin or some hard addesive (poxipol?) on them to make them a little bigger (longer?).
Take care to do not add it inside of them to block the bbs path.

thanks for the idea, i'll try adding a drop of glue on each lip of the chamber, similar to the hop_mode..

i'll keep you posted

Hi there, Im new to CTW.

Im a retailer here in Canada and just got my initial stock of CTW and a demo unit.

Im torturing test the CTW by shooting several mags a day since it arrived and having no misfeeding or chopping. Then I had a friend of mine come in to see the gun and when he tested it its beginning to mis-feed and having the chopping. we replicated what he is doing and found out that when he is fettering with the trigger on semi and putting it full auto that's when it starts to misfeed. Im thinking might be when he is not fully pulling the trigger on semi that its creating the problem of half pulling the piston and not pushing the bb's all the way through thats why its being caught by the nozzle and thus chopping.

Ill further test the demo gun and will let you know.

one thing the ctw does not do (at least not correctly or always): it doesn't stop the gears exactly in the same spot, like the ptw does, sometimes the gears spins a little more, enough to load a bb in the hop-up chamber because the extra gear spin pulls the piston and the nozzle back; then on the next trigger pull, is attempts to load another bb

I'll try and clear some misconceptions. When Celcius started copying the PTW, the hardware parts were simple to replicate, since you'd only need a ruler and a pair of calipers to map every piece out. What they couldn't copy was the software inside the ecu's microcontroller, so they had to write their own, from scratch.
I'm not entirely familiar with Celcius's older models, but somewhere along the line someone thought that a low-battery warning was needed, and looking at the hardware, it's done by timing the gears rather then actual voltage-drop measurement. Well, without CTW's ecu source-code and a debugger I can only make suppositions, but it is my belief that the timing routine is interfering with the active-braking when the gun is cranked open and the gears are spinning freely.
This never happens if the piston and spring are engaged. Every single time I've opened the receivers, the sector was properly aligned nomatter if I was on single or burst for the last shot before. The effort to compress the spring slows down the cycle to the point where the routines cycle as intended.

Now, on the matter of double-feed: for the nozzle to travel back enough that a BB is admitted inside the hop chamber, the amount of nozzle-movement needed is around 9 mm, which would translate in the leading tooth of the sector-gear being about 2/3 of the visible arc towards the back. Then, as the CTW gearbox doesn't have an anti-reversal, the spring would have to push it back to neutral position before a new cycle begins for a 2nd BB to be loaded, thus getting a double-feed. I have yet to experience this, and would have been reported by people if it could happen, because the sound of the motor/gears being back-spinned by the spring is hard to miss and unmistakeable.

If you compare a bare CTW hop-chamber with a PTW equivalent, you'll notice the magazine-wise hole is visibly smaller, and the edges are alot sharper. Then, moving to the upper receiver, the slot where the outer barrel alignment key enters is wider then the key itself, allowing for outer+inner barrel axial play or misalignment.
The combination of the two is the most probable cause of chopped BBs.
Now, on a lighter note, it's not that a Systema PTW won't chop BBs. After a 3-days game, I've opened up a teammate's cylinder and there was a whole BB worth of plastic shards inside.

Para wrote:I'll try and clear some misconceptions. When Celcius started copying the PTW, the hardware parts were simple to replicate, since you'd only need a ruler and a pair of calipers to map every piece out. What they couldn't copy was the software inside the ecu's microcontroller, so they had to write their own, from scratch.
I'm not entirely familiar with Celcius's older models, but somewhere along the line someone thought that a low-battery warning was needed, and looking at the hardware, it's done by timing the gears rather then actual voltage-drop measurement. Well, without CTW's ecu source-code and a debugger I can only make suppositions, but it is my belief that the timing routine is interfering with the active-braking when the gun is cranked open and the gears are spinning freely.
This never happens if the piston and spring are engaged. Every single time I've opened the receivers, the sector was properly aligned nomatter if I was on single or burst for the last shot before. The effort to compress the spring slows down the cycle to the point where the routines cycle as intended.

Now, on the matter of double-feed: for the nozzle to travel back enough that a BB is admitted inside the hop chamber, the amount of nozzle-movement needed is around 9 mm, which would translate in the leading tooth of the sector-gear being about 2/3 of the visible arc towards the back. Then, as the CTW gearbox doesn't have an anti-reversal, the spring would have to push it back to neutral position before a new cycle begins for a 2nd BB to be loaded, thus getting a double-feed. I have yet to experience this, and would have been reported by people if it could happen, because the sound of the motor/gears being back-spinned by the spring is hard to miss and unmistakeable.

If you compare a bare CTW hop-chamber with a PTW equivalent, you'll notice the magazine-wise hole is visibly smaller, and the edges are alot sharper. Then, moving to the upper receiver, the slot where the outer barrel alignment key enters is wider then the key itself, allowing for outer+inner barrel axial play or misalignment.
The combination of the two is the most probable cause of chopped BBs.
Now, on a lighter note, it's not that a Systema PTW won't chop BBs. After a 3-days game, I've opened up a teammate's cylinder and there was a whole BB worth of plastic shards inside.

Hey Para, check out my video as I think I may have caught this on video. Notice around 1:48 my CTW goes through a half cycle at the end of the burst and you can hear the spring pushing the gears back.

http://contour.com/stories/attacking-the-pirate-ship

Yep, sounds like a reverse. Too short for a feed, but definitely a rev. Listened to it 5 times.

But then, forget the CTWs, I want to know about that field you're playing in How does it work ? Someone owns it, had it built and is now renting it to players ?